Just the FAQS (about R-1234yf)

By Elvis L. Hoffpauir, president MACS Worldwide

The EPA’s recent announcement, that it has listed R-1234yf under SNAP for use in mobile air conditioners designed for it, has increased interest in and questions about the new refrigerant. Following are some of the most frequently asked questions and our response.

What automobile manufacturers are planning to use R-1234yf, and when?

To date, only General Motors has formally announced that 2013 Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac models in the U.S. will use the new refrigerant. However, we know that all major automobile manufacturers worldwide have been working on this option, and European regulations ban the use of R-134a in new platforms in 2011. We would expect to see use of the new refrigerant by manufacturers in Europe this year, but it’s likely to be introduced slowly. Whether or when European manufacturers would export these vehicles to the U.S. is unknown.

European regulations begin to phase out use of R-134a in mobile air conditioning in 2011, and eliminate its use in all new vehicles by 2017.

Will the U.S. follow Europe’s lead?

The State of California has proposed mandating a low-GWP refrigerant for the 2017 model year, but that is certainly not carved in stone. As of yet, there is no similar proposal at the national level. However, car manufacturers in the U.S. can get credits that will help them meet CAFÉ requirements by using a low-GWP refrigerant, so they have that incentive.

While new vehicles with R1234yf can be expected to return to dealers through warranty programs, when can collision and independent repair shops expect to see these vehicles?

Warranties vary, of course. But 2013 model year vehicles are likely to hit the streets in 2012. If they are on the street, some of them will be involved in collisions. When it comes to service and repair, our industry’s historical data suggests that most service is performed on vehicles between five and ten years old, but modern A/C systems are more robust and refrigerant leak rates have been substantially reduced, so a modern system can be expected to last longer.

Will service shops need dedicated equipment to service R-1234yf? What is this likely to cost?

Dedicated equipment will be required for the new refrigerant. We estimate that the primary equipment (RRR machines, refrigerant identifiers and electronic leak detectors) costs from $3,500 to $6,500 for R-134a. We would expect that the cost of the same equipment for the new refrigerant would be in that range or slightly higher.

How does R-1234yf compare to R-134a?

Good system service practices will become even more important with R-1234yf systems – pulling a deep vacuum on the system to remove air, avoiding introducing moisture into the air conditioning system; both of the latter are concerns when servicing R-134a systems, and there are indications that improper service could be an even greater concern with the new R-1234yf systems. Regarding components, there is an SAE International standard, J2842, which states that “an evaporator from a vehicle air conditioning system shall not be repaired or removed from any (including salvage) vehicle air conditioning system with the intention of using it again in the same or a different vehicle.” In many other respects, however, we are told that the new refrigerant is very similar to R-134a in performance and for service.

What about the cost of the new refrigerant?

R-1234yf will be substantially more expensive. The manufacturers of the refrigerant have not quoted a price publically, but estimate ranging from $40 to $60 a pound has been circulating in the industry.

What companies will be manufacturing R-1234yf?

Honeywell and DuPont have announced that they will begin supplying the refrigerant in the fourth quarter of 2011 for new vehicle builds.

R-1234yf is classified as a mildly flammable gas — should technicians be concerned about servicing these automobile A/C systems?

Technicians should be knowledgeable about the properties of this refrigerant and handle it properly. That being said, extensive testing is reported to have shown that it is difficult to ignite R-1234yf, but it can be ignited by, for instance, a cherry-red hot manifold or a match or butane lighter.

Will new technician training and certification be required for R1234yf?

The U.S. EPA will ultimately make that decision. In its recent SNAP rule regarding R-1234yf, EPA said “Section 609 of the Clean Air Act requires technician training for persons servicing for consideration. EPA will consider under a separate rulemaking under section 609, whether it is necessary to modify our existing regulations under section 609 to include additional specifications for HFO-1234yf.”

When having your mobile A/C system professionally serviced, insist on proper repair procedures and quality replacement parts. Insist on recovery and recycling so that refrigerant can be reused and not released into the atmosphere.

If you’re a service professional and not a MACS member yet, you should be, click here for more information.

You can E-mail us at macsworldwide@macsw.org or visit http://bit.ly/cf7az8 to find a Mobile Air Conditioning Society member repair shop in your area. Visit http://bit.ly/9FxwTh to find out more about your car’s mobile A/C and engine cooling system.

The 32nd annual Mobile Air Conditioning Society (MACS) Worldwide Convention and Trade Show will take place January 18-20, 2012 at the Rio All Suite Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas, NV.


About macsworldwide

Mobile Air Conditioning Society (MACS) Worldwide Founded in 1981, MACS is the leading non-profit trade association for the mobile air conditioning, heating and engine cooling system segment of the automotive aftermarket. Since 1991, MACS has assisted more than 600,000 technicians to comply with the 1990 U.S. EPA Clean Air Act requirements for certification in refrigerant recovery and recycling to protect the environment. The Mobile Air Conditioning Society (MACS) Worldwide’s mission is clear and focused--as the recognized global authority on mobile air conditioning and heat transfer industry issues. www.macsw.org
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16 Responses to Just the FAQS (about R-1234yf)

  1. victor sousa says:

    hello can i convert a r123a air condicioning in to 1234yf

  2. David Roland says:

    Can you supply a Pressure Temp Chart for R-1234yf?
    How do the heated anode leak detectors respond to the new refrigerant?
    How do the current generation of Indentifiers work on the new refrigerant?
    What Oils are compatible? PAG, POE, Ester? Mineral?

  3. Michael Runyan says:

    Recent training from MBUSA indicates that the new Mercedes SL550 with the R1234yf system will use a NEW PAG oil. The new PAG oil part number will be backwards compatible with R134a systems..

    • Wzrd1 says:

      Looks like there is a Mercedes recall over the refrigerant. To judge by the recall and the flammability of the refrigerant, there seems to be some resistance in the US to the use of the new coolant.
      NHTSA Campaign ID Number : 12V478
      Manufacturer : MERCEDES-BENZ USA, LLC.
      Make / Model Years : MERCEDES BENZ / 2013
      Subject : A/C Refrigerant May Ignite In A Crash

  4. rajasekar says:

    sir i want to know the details about where i have to buy the R1234yf refrigerant

  5. You must unsubscribe from your own email address

  6. VISHAL says:

    i want to buy R1234yf is it available in INDIA?????

  7. Pingback: Changes coming to A/C work for auto body shops as EPA phases out refrigerant HFC-134a | Repairer Driven News

  8. Philip Pruitt says:

    Is r134 compatible with r1234?

    • The two forms of refrigerants are not to be mixed nor are R-1234yf systems to be retrofitted with R-134a.
      Please download and read the MACS Section 609 study manual for more information.

  9. Humam says:

    Can I convert an empty R-1234yf system to R-134a

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